What Do Us Mormons REALLY Think of Grace?
My husband and I are constantly discussing the role of grace in LDS theology and disagree somewhat on how most mainstream Mormons view the issue.
And it made me wonder: what do us Mormons REALLY think of grace?
So I’d like to pose the question to you, my dear readers (all 7 or so of you *grin*): from your perspective, what is the role of grace in our salvation?
Then, if you feel so inclined, I’d also invite you to share…
–What sources in particular have shaped your understanding of this doctrine? (i.e. scriptures, talks, general authorities, Sunday School lessons, seminary/institute teachers, parents, friends, missions, etc.)
–How does your understanding of the doctrine of grace shape how you approach your religious life, and/or how you approach your day-to-day life?
Please note, I’d like this to be a “judgment-free” zone; in other words, there are no right or wrong answers here. I’m just curious to understand how people view the issue and see if I can glean any further understanding on this very important principle from what you have to say.
Thanks in advance!
Katie 🙂
Posted on October 24, 2008, in Mormonism and tagged grace, interpretations, Mormonism, truth. Bookmark the permalink. 8 Comments.
Standing, Sitting, Lying Down 
My understanding of the gospel has come from my reading the scriptures mostly. I’ve also learned a great deal from listening and reading the words of the Apostles. I also love the books and talks by Mike Wilcox. He’s a great man who understands the gospel.
However my understanding of “grace” was enlightened by reading the book The Peace Giver. It changed my life and how I viewed myself in relation to the Savior.
This fictional book tells the story of a couple on the verge of divorce, who constantly blame each other for the hurt that they both feel. It is easy to understand the desire to blame the other spouse for the problems in marriage, but the book opened my eyes to the role of “fairness” or “justice,” in relation to other children of God. It teaches simply that if we were to “get what we (I) deserve, it would be hell. For that is what imperfect people deserve no matter how good they have been.
My understanding of grace was thus enlightened. We are asked to do good works and to become like Him because it is good for us. We obey the commandments because the Father asks us to obey them. We surrender our will, because it is the only thing we can truly sacrifice to the Lord, but we do not do these things to earn salvation or grace. We do them because that will make us like Him. Yet we will always be deserving of hell and it is because of the Savior’s atonement that we will not be forced to receive hell. The Father doesn’t want us to get what is “fair” in life, He wants infinitely better for us.
Well, after reading the post, I’m not certain I’m exactly qualified to comment (as I don’t regard myself as necessarily ‘mainstream Mormon’, not having attended services of any stripe for a few years now), but since I still claim the belief structure, regardless of my activity level, I’ll give it a go…
My understanding of grace is based primarily on scripture (and, no, I don’t know it well enough to quote you chapter and verse, I tend to think in broad strokes on such topics and don’t get down to the minutiae unless someone makes me look it up). Grace is the only thing that can provide salvation. No matter how good we live our lives, we do not have the ability to enact our own resurrection or redemption. It is only by truly and fully accepting the Lord’s Atonement that this can happen.
However, unlike several religions, ‘truly and fully accepting’ the Atonement is not a simple function of claiming belief in the Lord and his salvation. Actions speak louder than words, to borrow the cliche, and if we truly believe that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, then we demonstrate it through how we live, rather than simply paying lip service to Him. To paraphrase the scripture, it is by Grace that we are saved, after all that we can do. The grand debate of Grace versus Acts comes down to a simple equation, in my understanding. It is through our acts that we earn grace.
Grace? Why, whatever does THAT mean???
I was raised in a very “mainstream” conservative household. Do this, don’t do that. If you do this/that, you will be better off. If you don’t do this/that, you’ll pay. You’ll never be good enough, but keep trying, and MAYBE you’ll obtain salvation. You are free to do as you please, but beware the consequences. If you do ENOUGH good things then you will be REWARDED in life and after death. When you die, you will be JUDGED and if you didn’t screw up too much, then you’ll get a pat on the back and ushered down to the bottom of the totem pole for the rest of eternity.
The idea of grace in LDS theology was absent in my upbringing. I was raised to believe that ACTS assured you a place in heaven. I honestly don’t remember Grace EVER being discussed, anywhere (home, church) at anytime.
I know that this all sounds negative and resentful, but its not. I’m just basically trying to say that I don’t think grace plays a role in mainstream Mormonism. At least it didn’t for me.
The closest thing to grace that I was taught growing up was this: God loves you, and since God sent his son down to die for our sins, and since Jesus was willing to die for our sins, we should show a little respect and follow the rules. If you follow the rules well enough, you will be saved. Be good and don’t waver and you’ll be alright.
That was the grace of God that I knew.
I think the issue of grace in the LDS culture is an interesting one because it points to some bigger cultural issues. First I think it points to how much we define ourselves by what we DON’T believe rather than what we DO believe. For example, we know we’re not Baptist because we don’t believe we are saved by grace alone. We don’t necessarily know what we do believe, but we sure as heck know what we don’t.
The other cultural issue I think it points to is how much we confuse self reliance with being alone. For example, we are self reliant because we have our year’s supply–oh, and we never ask people for help unless we can pay them back ahead of time in some magnanimous way. I think we do this in regards to grace when we avoid repenting until we’ve already ‘made it right’ through our own efforts rather than asking the Lord to guide us in the first place. The Lord never wanted us to do things alone. That’s why He gave us the Holy Ghost. Yes, He wants us to try and do our best but He knows our best will never be enough. But He’s okay with that because He loves us. That’s how I define grace.
Anyway, that was a tangent. My conception of grace changed in a big way when I moved out of the “Mormon corridor” and had kids. Suddenly I was surrounded by a lot of mainstream Christians who asked me on a regular basis if I was saved, if I knew Jesus, and if I accepted his grace in my life. Not really understanding what they meant I ended up reading a book called, _How Wide the Divide_ by Craig Blomberg and Stephen E. Robinson. The book poses a number of theological questions and lets a mainstream Christian (Blomberg) and a Mormone (Robinson) answer. This book helped me see how we DO believe in grace but we just use different language to talk about it. So much that goes on between other Christians and Mormons is just a question of rhetoric!
Oh, and having kids changed my conception of grace because being a mom was so much harder than I thought it would be that I find myself in constant need of God’s grace–if only for the sake of my children and their probable therapy bills in later life 🙂
Thanks so much for posting, everyone!!
Maryann–what you wrote reminded me of that lesson you and Jed taught in Sunday School, where you said that we don’t get what we deserve, but what we DESIRE. Thanks.
Curtis–you are MORE than welcome to post your thoughts here, “active” churchgoer or not. Your insights were valuable. Thank you so much for stopping by.
Todd–I think we’ve chatted about this a bit. I experienced much the same thing. Thanks for your comments and I love you (in a totally brother-sister way…so tell Amy not to worry)!!
Laura–I really enjoyed How Wide the Divide, too, and it was a major turning point for me in my understanding of grace. Check out “Grace Works” by Millet if you haven’t read that one yet. It has some minor points I don’t totally agree with, at least where I’m sitting right now, but I REALLY appreciated the basic message and think you will probably enjoy it.
One more thought…
Laura made a good point:”Christians who asked me on a regular basis if I was saved, if I knew Jesus, and if I accepted his grace in my life”
After I re-read these posts and thought about it some more, I think a time that grace might have been brought up in my youth, was in reference to other religions. I vaguely remember other religions “boasting” on being saved by Grace and that it was only through excepting “God’s Grace” that you could be saved. If you hadn’t excepted Jesus than basically you were Hell bound (that was my understanding). However true that statement might have been, I definitely didn’t understand it.
In my young Mormon mind at that time, “Being Saved by Grace and excepting Jesus” seemed like an easy street cop-out. I thought that you had to WORK at it.. and work really hard. Just excepting seemed a little too easy to me. So I think part of my upbringing shunned Grace as being a lazy Christians way of obtaining salvation.
I’m kind of repeating myself here.. but you’ve posed a very interesting question. It’s good to see conversations on subjects like these.
Grace… I always thought that was a pretty name.
In recent years, I have become increasingly obsessed with the more secular nature of religiousity–especially in the Christian realm. By seeking answers in perhaps authors and narrative outside of the scriptures, I felt enlightened by different views.
For example, “Paradise Lost” by John Milton discusses how fallen people became after losing God’s presence. If indeed we are carnal and sensual the moment we leave the heavens, then no amount of work will alter our natural state. Only through someone who has recieved the authority to change our beings (namely, Christ) can “save” us through Grace.
Then again, I always questioned whether or not Christ’s suffering for our sins portrayed the suffering we feel for the guilt or rather for the punishment that we would recieve.
April, thanks for stopping by.
For example, “Paradise Lost” by John Milton discusses how fallen people became after losing God’s presence. If indeed we are carnal and sensual the moment we leave the heavens, then no amount of work will alter our natural state. Only through someone who has recieved the authority to change our beings (namely, Christ) can “save” us through Grace.
This is a powerful point. I don’t know if we, as Mormons, appreciate this as well as we could.
I remember when I was on my mission, Elder Nelson came to speak to us. After his talk, he opened the discussion up for questions and answers. I asked him how we could help people understand their need for a Savior. He replied: “Teach them about the Fall.”
I didn’t get it then, but I think I’m starting to now.
Because of Mormonism’s rejection of Original Sin, I think we forget that while Adam’s transgression doesn’t condemn us, we still suffer its effects. Namely, we become devilish, carnal, and sinful by nature. And ONLY Christ has the power to change our nature. His doing so, when we absolutely DO NOT deserve it (and there is nothing we can EVER do to deserve it), is the essence of grace.
“Then again, I always questioned whether or not Christ’s suffering for our sins portrayed the suffering we feel for the guilt or rather for the punishment that we would recieve.”
This is a phenomenal question, the answer to which I have absolutely no idea. Will have to ponder that further…